中国大好き

劉曉波傳在德國面世

Elfriede Jelinek spoke with Bei Ling and translator Martin Winter on  Dec 8th, 2010 in Munich about literature, writers and their organizations, China and Austria, Liu Xiaobo and the Independent Chinese PEN-Club. Among other things, we talked about independent PEN-clubs in different countries – Austria has one, too, because until the early 1970s, publication in Austria was restricted by a few old men with cold war credentials. Elfriede Jelinek has read Liao Yiwu’s poems on the radio in spring. She has been interested in Chinese literature for a while. Here are some photos:

2010年12月8日，葉尼涅克（Elfriede Jelinek）與貝嶺和翻譯馬丁（Martin Winter）在慕尼黑就文學、作家與其組織、中國和奧地利，以及劉曉波和獨立中文筆會展開一場對談。除此之外，我們討論關於各國的獨立筆會──奧地利也是其一，因為自從1970年代開始，奧地利的出版物已因冷戰受限在少數的掌權者。今年春季，葉尼涅克曾在廣播中聽過廖亦武的詩。她對中國文學感興趣已有一段時間。以下是一些照片：

Elfriede Jelinek with Bei Ling and translator Martin Winter

This is a book about an absent person, who is held in prison; who has won a Nobel Peace prize and is not allowed to collect it: Liu Xiaobo. His old friend Bei Ling writes about him. He draws a many-facetted picture – only a knowledgeable friend can do that. This book is concerned with manifestos, petitions, political actions, but also with self-doubt and guilt, stubbornness and ambition. The author Bei Ling, who was imprisoned himself before, sees his duty in painting a complicated picture of this civil rights activist, with many different shades and colors. Bei Ling knows that he can see Liu Xiaobo only from one side, he can only portray him in profile, not from the front. But even if it is only part of a bigger picture, this part shows us a whole cosmos of courage and repression, of labor camps and life outside watched by security agents, like the life that the wife of this civil rights activist is forced to lead. This book offers a lot of information, but it doesn’t explain everything, because it wants you to keep asking questions. This is why I think everyone should read it.

Elfriede Jelinek, Tr. MW

這是一本關於缺席者──劉曉波的書，他身陷囹圄，獲得了諾貝爾和平獎卻不允許去領獎。他的老友貝嶺提筆寫他，描繪了一幅多面圖畫──這僅為學識見解豐富的友人才能辦到。這本書除了關注宣言、連署、政治運動的部分，也包含劉曉波的自我怀疑和内疚、他的頑固與野心。作者貝嶺過去也曾被監禁过，他明瞭自己的責任，他必須用許多不同的陰影與色彩去描繪出這位人權運動家的複雜一面。貝嶺知道自己僅從一側去理解劉曉波，他僅描繪他的側面肖像，而不是正面像。儘管這只是更大畫面裡的一部分，但這部分展現給世人的是全景，有关勇氣和壓迫、有关劳改营和在外面被公安警察監視的生活，比如像身為人权运动家妻子被迫所过的那种生活。這本書提供了許多信息，但不解釋一切，因為它要求你去不斷地提問。這就是為什麼我认为每個人都必須讀這本書。(葉尼涅克 Elfriede Jelinek ，2004年諾貝爾文學獎得主。Martin Winter英譯)

One question that always comes up is ‘why’. Why does Liu Xiaobo keep on doing this, organizing petitions and manifestos? Why do they think he is so dangerous? So there are actually several questions. The answer to the second question has to do with the Independent Chinese PEN. But why? Why do they keep on suppressing any kind of publication outside of academic and government bodies? Why was Bei Ling’s crime of printing a literary magazine in Beijing so serious, a magazine which had already been forbidden in China, which he had been publishing in Taiwan, but which was after all just a place for poetry and prose by ‘underground’ writers like Liao Yiwu and translations of essays by Susan Sontag and modernist poetry by Vaclav Havel, for example? It’s absurd and paranoid, when you look at it in the context of economic, and, to some extent, social development, connected with and open to the world, to a very large extent, as it seems. This is what Elfriede Jelinek remarked, too. How can this go on, she asked?

人們常問「為什麼」。為什麼劉曉波持續地做這些事，籌組連署運動和宣言？為什麼他們認為他這麼危險？這些其實都是問題。第二個問題的答案與運作獨立中文筆會有關，但原因為何？為什麼他們持續查禁學術和國家體制外任何形式的出版物？為什麼貝嶺在北京所犯的「非法印行文學刊物罪」會如此嚴重，這刊物在中國被查禁，在台灣卻可以出版。這本刊物只是出版一些地下作家的詩、散文，例如廖亦武這樣的「地下」作家，以及蘇珊‧桑塔格的思想性散文、哈維爾的現代派詩歌的譯作。倘若你從經濟和社會發展的角度來看，或從與世界連結的角度來看，這似乎是荒謬和偏執的。此亦葉尼涅克的觀察。這怎麼可以持續下去呢？葉尼涅克問。

I had to agree with her as to the absurdity, like when a woman is shipped off to a labor camp for a year, and her proclaimed crime was forwarding a satirical Twitter message against the Japanese pavilion at the Shanghai World Fair, or actually making fun of nationalist demonstrations. This happened a few weeks ago, in late November. The reports in the South China Morning Post and other papers did mention that the woman had helped a few friends in legal cases against various local government bodies. So there was a reason. She had done something else, but they couldn’t attend to her for soe reason. They had to wait until she could be charged with something clearly illegal, like Twitter. Right? 我必須同意她談到的荒謬性，好比一個女士被送到勞改營一年，當局宣布她的罪行是因為她針對上海世博會的日本館在推特（Twitter）上發了一篇帶有嘲諷意味的推文，還諷刺了國家民族主義。這是幾個禮拜前，11月底，才發生的事。中國南方晨報和其他報紙報導中特別提到，這女士過去曾幫助一些友人處理對抗地方政府機構的官司。這才是主因。她做了這些，但當局基於某些原因無法處理，而要等到這樁小事發生才將她逮捕，例如推特事件，是嗎？

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Of course there are historical reasons. Literature and art of any kind, but especially the progressive kind, that had been influenced and driven by modernism, Marxism and nationalism, and had already changed written Chinese in general to a large extent, had to be seized and controlled from before the beginning of the People’s Republic. Perry Link, among others, has researched and documented this ongoing situation. Comparisons to other Socialist countries have been raised. 當然也有大環境的歷史緣故。任何形式的文學和藝術，尤其是受現代主義、馬克思主義和民族主義所影響、普遍上大幅度地改變中文書寫的作品，這種被掠奪和控制的現象在中國人民共和國創立前已發生。此外，林培瑞（Perry Link）和其他學者都曾研究和紀錄這個持續發展的情勢，有人用其他社會主義國家來作比較。

We didn’t discuss much of that angle. An interesting point that did come up was Liu Xiaobo as president of the Independent Chinese PEN. He became much more moderate than before, said Bei Ling, because he had to represent and protect many other writers in China. And because Liu Xiaobo took on a very consensual role, he was much more dangerous to the system.

我們沒有討論此類的諸多觀點。令人感興趣的一點是發生在劉曉波擔任獨立中文筆會會長期間。他變得沒有過去偏激，貝嶺說，因為他必須代表並保護在中國其他眾多的作家。並因劉曉波曾是大家所公認的角色，他更加的危險。

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Zhang Zuhua, the other main author of Charter 08, was also detained in December 2008, but subsequently let go. He was detained again last week, but only very briefly. He has a different background.

另一位《零八憲章》主要的起草人張祖樺，同樣在2008年12月被拘捕，但隨後獲釋。上個星期他再度被扣留，不過非常短暫。他的背景不同。

Charter 08 is available online in the original, in Perry Link’s English translation and in many other versions, which can be found via the Wikipedia entries for Charter 08, for example. Links to discussions of the content are also available there.

《零八憲章》的原稿和英譯都能在網上搜到，例如可透過維基百科搜尋「零八憲章」，亦能連結到相關內容的討論群。

Apart from Charter 08, Liu Xiaobo was convicted and sentenced because of a few articles, published in Chinese in Hongkong and other places. These articles should have been named in detail and discussed in the biography, but there was not enough time. There are a few other details that didn’t make it in this time, because Bei Ling wrote them after we translators had already finished with that chapter and had to go on with a new one.

除了《零八憲章》以外，劉曉波也因一些用中文發表在香港和其他地方的文章而被定罪判刑。這些文章原本該在這本傳記中被詳列討論，但因為時間不充裕作罷。其他許多細節無法在此刻呈現，是因為貝嶺在譯者們完這個章節的翻譯後才寫出來，譯者為了新的進度而無法回頭作修改。

Bei Ling kept visiting Liu Xiaobo and Liu Xia each time he came back to China. From 1993 to 2000 he managed to bring them money from various Chinese organizations abroad, at least once a year, although he was always followed by security agents. This is one of the details that didn’t make it into the first printing.

每次回中國，貝嶺會持續地去探望劉曉波和劉霞。從1993年到2000年，儘管總有國安尾隨跟蹤，貝嶺還是設法從不同的海外中國人權組織帶些錢給他們，至少每年一次。是初版的傳記裡無法呈現的細節之一。

Liu Xiaobo’s most recent book in China was printed in 2000. It was openly available in every book store; the first print run was 100.000 copies. He used a pseudonym, and most people only noticed the co-author: Wang Shuo, the most successful novelist of the 1990s.

劉曉波最近的一本在中國出版的書是在2000年。首刷十萬本，可在每家書店的架上找到。他化名和1990年代最成功的小說家、眾所皆知作家王朔合著，結果大家只注意到王朔，沒有注意到他。

Bei Ling was the editor. He and Wang Shuo had all the necessary contacts. Both of them recount how the stunt was pulled off, how Wang Shuo and Liu Xiaobo worked together and how the book was successfully published. This is another very interesting part of the biography that is missing from the first print run.

貝嶺是這本書的編輯。他和王朔都認識出版必要的熟人門路。他們兩人詳述為了完成這本書所使用的絕招、王朔和劉曉波如何合作，以及如何將這本書成功出版。這是這本初版傳記裡另一些漏掉的有趣部分。

Liu Xiaobo is the main voice of the book. Wang Shuo only comments from the side. It’s a writer’s book about other writers, literary criticism at its finest. When the book came out, many people bought it because of the name Wang Shuo. It wasn’t a novel, and you could only really appreciate it if you knew many, many names in various Chinese literary circles. It was a very strange book and a big sensation, even if many would-be readers didn’t know what to do with it, and many also didn’t know that the other author apart from Wang Shuo was a notorious dissident fresh out of labor camp.

劉曉波是這本書的主調。王朔只是在側敲邊鼓提意見。這是一本關於作家的書，也是一本最好的文學批評。當這本書一面市，許多人是衝著王朔的名子而買。它不是一本小說，你若想完全享受這本書，得要認識許多中國文學圈的人。這是本非常奇怪的書，許多想讀這本書的人也不知道該怎麼讀，也有許多人不知道除王朔之外，那另一位作者竟然是剛出勞改營、聲名狼藉的異議份子。儘管如此，這本書仍然造成了轟動。

Wang Shuo gave all the money from the book to Liu Xiaobo, via Bei Ling, who had to open a secret account and tell Liu Xiaobo later, when it was safer and when Liu would not protest any more.

王朔透過貝嶺開立的秘密帳戶，把這本書所有的稿酬都給了劉曉波。王朔等到處境比較安全，且劉曉波不再表示異議之後，才告訴他這件事。

A sculpture by Liu Xiaobo's friend Mi Qiu

劉曉波友人米丘的雕塑作品。

One other interesting missing link in the first print run of the biography is an elaboration of the scene in prison when Liu Xiaobo swallows a whole egg, without being able to peel it first, because the egg belonged to a privileged prisoner. This privileged prisoner, who got an egg every day while the others never saw one for years, was actually also a dissident. In the book, Liu Xiaobo later tells the story, stuttering like he often did, or does, according to friends. Should you hear or see that in translation too? Chi-chinese li-literature … What do you think? I wanted to keep it every time. They did let him stutter in German in the telephone call from New York to Taipei in March 1989. Liu Xiaobo, Jiang He and Bei Ling called Chen Yingzhen from his old apartment, it was his old girlfriend who let them stay there. Chen had been imprisoned for promoting Marx’s The Capital. This is a great scene. These few weeks in New York, before Liu returned to China and took part in the protests, are a very fascinating section of the book. It was the beginning, Bei Ling started writing from there.

“诺委会主席亚格兰德演讲全文中文版” http://ff.im/-v09jO

Independent Chinese PEN statement with poem by Liu Xiaobo  独立中文笔会会长廖天琪：写在晓波缺席于诺奖颁奖典礼之日—-在挪威奥斯陆的发言（中英文版） http://bit.ly/i8dfMS

My essay on Liu Xiaobo and the new biography

My posting on MCLC while translating the bio

Liu Xiaobo and 1984

Danke an Andreas Landwehr für diese Vorstellung des Buches: http://www.ka-news.de/kultur/literatur/subdir/art1827,524735 Es war in der Tat nicht leicht, dieses Buch in sehr kurzer Zeit fertig zu bekommen. Ich bin einer der Übersetzer. Hier ist eine weitere Zusammenfassung: http://m.focus.de/op/focus/de/ct/-X/artikel/kultur-kolumne-brands-buecher-579466/1481581/275515/ Auf https://erguotou.wordpress.com/ gibt es eine Liste der Quellen, die der Autor Bei Ling für die Biografie verwendet hat. Ich bin auch gerne bereit, Fragen zu beantworten. Am 9.12.2010 war ein Interview mit Bei Ling im Deutschlandradio, ich habe übersetzt: http://www.dradio.de/dkultur/sendungen/thema/1338228/

Hier ein Interview bei  n-tv: http://www.n-tv.de/politik/dossier/Grosse-Schande-fuer-China-article2112531.html

Und hier ist das Spiegel-Interview: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/0,1518,733543,00.html

Hier ist ein Gedicht von Liu Xiaobo im “Standard” in Wien – http://derstandard.at/1291454752513/Das-aktuelle-Buch-Verbotene-Literatur

Die Frage nach den Rechten für die Übersetzung und den Abdruck ist berechtigt- Jonny Erling sollte so bald wie möglich Liu Xiaobos Frau Liu Xia kontaktieren. Liu Xia ist allerdings ebenso wie Liu Xiaobo selbst im Moment unerreichbar.

Am 8.12. 2010 hat Bei Ling in München mit Elfriede Jelinek gesprochen, ich war auch dabei- siehe Fotos. Elfriede Jelinek hat sich schon für Liao Yiwu (der Dichter ist ebenfalls ein alter Freund von Liu Xiaobo) und andere chinesische Autoren eingesetzt. Hier ist ihr Eindruck von der neuen Biografie:

Dies ist ein Buch über einen Abwesenden, einen im Gefängnis Festgehaltenen, über einen Nobelpreisträger, der seinen Preis nicht entgegennehmen darf: Liu Xiaobo. Sein alter Freund Bei Ling schreibt über ihn. Er zeichnet ein Bild mit vielen Facetten, wie es nur ein Freund kann. Es geht in diesem Buch um Manifeste, Unterschriftenaktionen, politische Handlungen, aber auch um Selbstzweifel und Schuldgefühle, Sturheit und Ehrgeiz. Der Autor, der einst selbst inhaftiert war, sieht es als seine Pflicht an, ein differenziertes Bild des Bürgerrechtlers Liu Xiaobo zu malen, mit allen Zwischentönen. Bei Ling ist bewußt, daß es nur ein Bild von einer Seite her sein kann, sozusagen im Halbprofil, aber schon dieser Ausschnitt eines Lebens enthüllt einen ganzen Kosmos aus Mut und Repression, es erzählt vom Arbeitslager und dem Leben unter Polizeiaufsicht, wie es die Frau des Bürgerrechtlers führen muß. Gerade weil dieses Buch viel erklärt, aber auch immer wieder zu Fragen anregt, ist es Pflichtlektüre.

Liu Xiaobo and Bei Ling July 2000 in Beijing. By Yang Xiaobin

劉曉波與貝嶺於北京，2000年7月。(楊小濱攝)

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